How to grow your creative business in 2024 with Mia Saine, Renata Paton, Whitney Manney and Penelope Wickman

It’s episode 100 of Brand Your Passion and we’re doing something special!

Today I have brought together four previous guests of the show to talk about all things engaging your audience, getting clients, getting customers and getting more opportunities.

Mia Saine, Renata Paton, Whitney Manney, and Penelope Wickman are here today to share with us what they’ve been doing that has been working, plus what they’re focusing on right now to continue to grow their creative businesses into 2024 and beyond.

If you’re ready to learn what is working for successful artists right now and how you can create the same success as these four incredible artists, keep reading.

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Let’s meet our guests!

First up is Mia Saine. Mia is an illustrator and designer whose work focuses on the empowerment of minorities. Mia has collaborated with incredible brands and organizations and their work discusses important topics such as racial injustice, PCOS, mindfulness, saving the bees and so much more.

I interviewed Mia a while back on the show. You can listen to her interview & hear more about Mia’s story here!

Second up, we have the lovely Whitney Manney. Whitney is a fashion and textile designer from Kansas City with a BFA in fibres and a desire to create art through her fashion. Something she is most definitely achieving with her independent label, Whitney Manney. She's all about creating a narrative between colour and pattern, which is a signature of her work. Or as Whitney puts it, her job isn't done until everybody in the world believes that fashion is art.

Want to hear more about Whitney? You can find her interview here & learn more about her journey with being a fashion designer!

Next up we have Renata Paton, also known as Gremren. Renata is a Melbourne-based indie artist who is all about fun creatures and punchy colour palettes.

You can see her messing around with paint pens, yarn, wood carving, and the list goes on. If it’s vibrant and fun, then Renata is in. 

If you want to hear more about Renata and how she built an audience of thousands of followers and a kick-ass brand, you can find her interview here!

Last but not least, we have Penelope Wickman, who is the founder of Clammy Heart, an art business where everything is embroidered in-house in their Portland studio. They have two multi-needle and two single-needle machines and a team of four that work super hard to create apparel and package it with love and care.

You can listen to Penelope’s interview from not too long ago right here where we talk about her journey with growing her business, building a team and everything in between!

Now let’s hear from our guests….

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Hollie: First of all, let’s do a quick catch up! I’d love to know how have your brand and business changed in the last couple of years?

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Mia: Honestly, since 2020, things have skyrocketed and my brand has taken some wild turns! Since our last episode, I’ve really put my work out there online. I got picked up by an agent and started collaborating with an illustration agency. Now, I’m sharing my passion through work with local organisations across the US (and also internationally!)

My brand has also expanded beyond flat art and illustrations into social awareness campaigns, packaging, apparel, murals, and more. It’s been a surprising and existing journey exploring all of these new mediums that I never imagined!

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Whitney: This year I’ve taken a big step by hiring a part-time studio assistant who had been interning for me over the past few summers. Payroll is no joke, but it’s been an amazing leap forward for my business.

I also actually scored my second TB placement on “RuPaul’s Drag Race All Stars” and have been diving more into production work which has been amazing!

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Penelope: Even since we chatted a few months ago I’ve been up to a ton of stuff. We’ve landed some big projects thanks to our embroidery equipment, studio space, and awesome team. One of the coolest projects is a collaboration for the 40th anniversary of Tamora Pierce’s book series.

We’re also embroidering items for other artists and peers too. Plus some exciting news: we might open a retail store in Portland soon! We’ve had some items on consignment at a local store, which is transitioning into an artist’s collective. Femiheart will be one of the 10 brands with a permanent space ther, which is super exciting. We’ve also been active in social outreach, including donation drives for Palestine.

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Renata: I did my biggest artist market ever at Finders Keepers, which is Australia’s largest art and design market. It was a huge undertaking but totally worthwhile, elevating my displays and scope.

I’ve also started working in consignment and retail spaces, setting up my first retail display, which is going well. I’m already planning my second restock in about a month.

Beyond that, it's been a constant hustle with shop updates and maintaining my online presence. Plus, I moved house! So, yeah, things are going great both personally and professionally for me!

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Hollie: I’m really interested to hear about what you have all been working on and how you have been going about it all. Could you tell us about that?

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Mia: From 2020 until now, my work has focused on uplifting marginalised groups and sharing powerful stories as I’ve really dug into my values, reflecting them in my projects a lot more.

One standout for me is illustrating children's books, something I never imagined doing. Learning about Memphis’s low literacy rates motivated me to create engaging material to help kids and the community.

Despite some personal challenges, I've found fulfillment in projects that contribute to others and reflect my journey of rediscovery. It's been an incredible experience, staying true to my passions and making a difference.

Navigating social media, on the other hand, has been tough. With the rise of reels, I felt pressured to share every moment, which made me step back, especially while dealing with personal issues like discrimination based on my sexuality and gender. 

Thankfully I learned the importance of healthy boundaries through going to therapy. Sharing openly is great, but constantly doing it was overwhelming. Now, as I rebrand and create new content, I’m focused on sharing my journey in a healthier, more sustainable way for me.

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Whitney: Personally, I think I’m a bit of a weirdo, and I kind of love it. I used to dream of having a show on MTV at 13, so I thrive on this. Documenting my journey helps me see how far I’ve come and fights off imposter syndrome. It’s a great way to stay accountable, especially with my daily "clocked in" stories that other artists join in on too.

I treat social media as a job, which keeps me from taking it personally. With more time than money, I make the most of this free tool. Whether it’s sharing my daily outfits or discussing community issues in short bites, I try to have fun and be myself, knowing it’s all a bit curated.

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Renata: Growing up introverted, I never imagined being so present on social media. It’s been a learning experience, sharing more than I ever thought I would. People expect artists to connect personally with their audience, so I think it’s really important to find somewhat of a balance.

I've been chatting online since I was 12, so that part feels natural, but I always check in with myself to ensure I’m comfortable with what I share. Authenticity is key, even if it’s curated. Sometimes I overshare, and sometimes I step back for my well-being. Communicating boundaries with your audience is crucial—they’ll appreciate your honesty over inauthenticity.

“Authenticity is key, even if it’s curated.”

Penelope: I agree with what everyone has said already. My struggle with social media is that reels and "day in the life" videos are popular now, but most of my day doesn’t feel very interesting to film. I sometimes piece together clips from different days, but I hate doing voiceovers, they make me super nervous.

I think that following trends is important to a degree, but if a trend doesn’t fit, I know a new one will come along that suits my style better.

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Hollie: What has been working for you all in terms of social media, specifically when it comes to engaging with your audience, getting sales, and signing clients? Anything new you’d like to share?

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Renata: I've been doing more markets, and physically showing up has been really helpful. My online store is always there, but being in a space where people might spend money on indie art prints is great.

I also stay present in stories with little updates, like "Hey, got a new sticker!" It’s about reminding people I exist without needing a huge effort. Just being around and available works for me.

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Whitney: Leveraging media beyond social media, like news, papers, and art magazines, has been crucial for me. It adds a level of professionalism and gives me easy content to share online, like, "Hey, I'm going to be on the news!"

Being on podcasts and using other platforms that align with mine helps create something bigger. It’s unique when an artist shows up in different media spaces, allowing for more elevated conversations.

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Mia: I’ve been focusing on networking, using press, and collaborating with people to push our shared missions. Connecting with others, whether online or offline, often leads to exciting opportunities and collaborations.

Rebranding has been a great experience, especially seeing how word of mouth and social media engagement have organically grown my platform. From illustrating to expanding into new areas, connecting with diverse interests has been key to evolving my business and boosting my confidence.

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Penelope: I’m really inspired by how you all are using press and media! I haven’t ventured into that space yet, even though Klemihar is about to hit eight years. The Emoxi podcast was my first podcast experience!

I tend to wait for projects to come to me rather than actively seeking them out. This year, I want to change that and reach out for press opportunities and expand our local presence. We’re also working on getting more visibility through stores and wholesale channels like Fair.

Since our apparel design process is slow, I’ve found sharing concept art on social media keeps people engaged. Posting sketches and mock-ups helps gauge interest and guide our production decisions. Concept sharing is super popular and keeps our audience excited as well.

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Hollie: So tell me, what are your plans for marketing your creative business in 2024? 

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Penelope: This year, we jumped back into conventions after having a few years off, hitting events in Portland, Atlanta, and Milwaukee. It’s amazing to see people recognise and appreciate our brand in person! We're excited to do more events next year and have a few lined up for spring.

We also want to improve our email marketing. We have nearly 9,000 subscribers but only send updates every couple of months. I want to push out more info about our products and events.

Additionally, we're exploring a semi-permanent retail space in Portland, which will be great for local visibility and hosting pop-up shops.

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Whitney: I’m determined to have my first-quarter plan ready (and I’ve even told my friend to check in on me next week!) Email marketing is a challenge, but I know it’s worth it. I’m shifting my focus from local events to boosting my online presence with SEO and my blog, and I’m excited to dive back into events with my new employee’s help. I’m also aiming to get more into YouTube and blogging, and I want to crack the code on wholesale to take my brand to the next level!

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Mia: I’m excited to dive into my brand’s relaunch next year! After focusing on helping other brands, I’m ready to revamp my own website and email marketing, and explore YouTube for tutorials and behind-the-scenes glimpses. 

I’m also keen on panel talks and workshops to engage locally and discuss social issues. My goal is to connect deeply with my community and effectively communicate the impact of my work.

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Renata: I’m working on boosting my local presence more than ever in 2024. Even though my international reach is strong, I often find people don’t realise I’m based in Australia or Melbourne so I plan to address this by getting my designs into local stores and improving my visibility.

I want to connect more personally with my audience this year—more voiceovers, sharing my everyday life, and showing who I am beyond my art. I believe that personal connection is incredibly valuable. Email marketing is also a key focus for me in 2024, and I’m committed to improving that aspect.

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Hollie: Let’s talk about hiring. For those of you who have team members, how did you know it was time to bring someone on board? And how did you find the right person to help you?

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Whitney: So I was working at the studio six or seven days a week, constantly sprinting to the finish line. Sewing is tough on the body, and I felt like I was always scrambling. But when my summer intern joined, it was like a breath of fresh air. I wasn’t forgetting things, I could get home before dark, and even had time to roller skate! 

Having someone consistently help, even just part-time, gave me the space to breathe and stay productive. Being busy is cute, but being productive is glamorous. I realised I don’t have to struggle and sacrifice to succeed which has been amazing.

Adjusting to being a manager has definitely been a learning curve. I was used to working alone in a studio that felt like my own personal space, so having someone else in there took some getting used to. At first, I found it hard to delegate tasks because I was so used to doing everything myself. But I’ve had to remind myself that having someone on board means I need to pass off tasks and use my teaching background to create effective plans. Delegating the simple stuff lets me focus on the big picture and ensures the business keeps growing.

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Renata: I recently set up at a local consignment store called Incubator, where you rent a space to display your products. I chose this spot because my merchandise, like stickers and small prints, is perfect for grab-and-go items. Setting up was a learning experience – packaging, branding, and maximising display space were all very new to me.

I initially underestimated the effort required, from tagging items to ensuring they’re packaged for retail. But it was incredibly helpful to reach out to friends who had done similar setups. Now, I can track sales in real-time and adjust my display based on what sells best.

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Whitney: I have a question. I'm curious how you handle all your data. Sometimes I feel overwhelmed with the specifics and wonder how to implement it. Do you have a process for filtering what you need, or do you try to use everything? How do you manage it all?

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Renata: I try to simplify data handling to avoid getting lost in details. I focus on key insights, like feedback on new products or recent posts, and use that to guide my decisions. I prefer to keep my approach artist-focused and evaluate how well the content is received, rather than getting too deep into analytics. 

Shopify offers a wealth of data, including product clicks, revenue, and top-viewed but not purchased items. It can be overwhelming, but it's incredibly useful. I export data into Google Sheets to compare metrics month over month or year over year. The monthly fee for Shopify is definitely worth it for the depth of information it provides.

Hollie, how do you manage your data?

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Hollie: I focus on tracking data that aligns with my specific goals. I use tools like Notion or Airtable to monitor metrics related to those objectives. For instance, if my goal is to boost email engagement, I track email open rates, rather than metrics like Instagram likes if that's not a priority.

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Mia: I'm still getting back into certain platforms and exploring options like Shopify for tracking data. From what I’ve seen, it’s great for detailed insights. For social media, I’m focusing on where my audience is coming from, like discovering strong followings in places like the UK. I also use email testing, like A/B tests, to refine my approach and check open rates.

Overall, I try to use specific, actionable data rather than getting overwhelmed by everything. I find that not all data translates perfectly across platforms, so I rely on my judgment and adjust accordingly. It’s been exciting to see how my content resonates and ensures I’m not just shouting into the void. I’ll check in with more updates as I gather more insights!

"Not all data translates perfectly across platforms, so I rely on my judgment and adjust accordingly."

That’s it for this roundtable discussion friends! I hope you find this discussion with Mia, Whitney, Penelope and Renata just as valuable as I have.

Make sure to connect with them on socials below!

• Mia: instagram.com/heymiasaine
• Whitney: instagram.com/whitneymanney 
• Penelope: instagram.com/clammyheart
• Renata: instagram.com/gremren